Thoughts on Hall running Chicago

So Ryan Hall announces he is running Chicago this fall. Assuming he actually runs the race this year, it triggers a few thoughts. I'm under the impression that many top Americans are skipping fall marathons to prepare for the Trials in January, so:

1) Is the money for running Chicago too much to pass up?
2) Is the time between Chicago and Houston enough to recovery and peak?
3) If not, does Hall not "race" Chicago and just collect a check?
4) Is he that confident about making the Olympic Team that running a fall race is not an issue?

Are any other top U.S. men racing a fall marathon?

I was shocked when I saw it. 90 days before the trials? That's the time when he should be really starting his massive build up for the Trials....not recovering from a marathon. Especially given the fact he had to drop out of last fall's Chicago due to burnout, this decision baffles me.



I can't imagine he needs the money that badly. (it's not like he's paying a coach...ba dum dum). And while I understand he's a step - if not two - ahead of his competition at the trials, all it takes is one bad day and he's watching London at home. I don't think he could qualify in the 10k, and definitely not the 5k.


I hope he knows better than I, because despite being an unapologetic Ritzenhein fanboy, even I can admit Hall is the best chance to medal in London.

Possibly a PR stunt brought on by his Divine Spirit?

Seriously Dave makes good points. Not sure his motives to doing this maybe someone can ask him.

Who's going to beat him in the trials?



Knock him if you will, but he is the fastest American born runner. If Chicago weather is decent, he'll have no problems recovering from the marathon. It's really a non issue to me.

It does seem awfully close to the Trials but because of when London is, he won't get a chance to run a marathon between the Trials and the Olympics so this is his ONLY chance to run against world class competition between now and London 2012. It would have made more sense to me to have him do Berlin which is several weeks earlier and would give him that much more recovery time. But I do think there is valid need for him to run again against the world's best before London and the Trials won't be that.

To understand this, one first needs to understand how pray works........

I am heading to a meeting and will see if I remember to come back for a little more detailed explanation.

This is a tough one to figure. On the one hand, he doesn't need to be in top physical shape to get a top 3 spot at the trials. He really just needs to be rested and not injured. On the other hand, that's a pretty cocky way of looking at the trials. Maybe making the trials isn't the most important thing to him. Maybe running a really fast marathon matters more and if he can do both, well so be it.

1) Is the money for running Chicago too much to pass up?

Money isn't a issue with Hall, he actually stated that all the money he wins at Chicago will be going to charity "Hall Steps Foundation."

2) Is the time between Chicago and Houston enough to recovery and peak?

I will have to yes because Ryan believes he has the time to recovery for the trials. He says that normally he trains for 10 to 12 weeks for a marathon. After running Chicago he will have 14 weeks before the trials. According to him he will take 1 week off and then the next week will be all easy running and then into he's trail build-up.

3) If not, does Hall not "race" Chicago and just collect a check?

I believe if Ryan is healthy and ready to go he will be running Chicago. Like Jim said above Chicago gives him the chance to race against world class runners that he would face in the Olympics. Again Ryan believes he needs this to be apart of his training and to be able to handle this type of talent come the games.

Also Ryan believes he needs to race on a flat course since he has not done so in a long time. So again Chicago will give him the chance to see were he is at running on a flat course before running a flat course in Houston.

4) Is he that confident about making the Olympic Team that running a fall race is not an issue?

Yes, he is that confident he can make the Olympic Team. I think that is a good thing and to run at the level that he is running you need to have the confidence in your ability that you can do it. Again I really think he is looking at Chicago to gain more experience in running the marathon and against World Class runners. In my opinion even if Ryan is having a bad day I still fell he would finish in the top 3 for the trials. That is all he needs to do to make the team.

Are any other top U.S. men racing a fall marathon?

Not sure. Even if others are or not running I think every runner has to decided on what is the best prep for him before the Trials. For Ryan he feels he needs to mix it up with the best and that his body is in great shape and that he has time to recovery and be ready for the games. How can I argue with that. For Ryan and even us as runners we all make choices on our training and racing plans on what we feel we can handle and what we can't handle. Sure Ryan has more at steak at making an Olympic Team vs. my choice or running Chicago and then JFK 50 miler a little over month later. I have to believe Ryan knows what he is doing and I think he will be fine.

I can remember the same debate coming up when Ryan went off on his own and how he was crazy not having a coach and how well would he do by making that choice. Well Ryan went to Boston and ran 2:04:58 which is an American best and if it was at another place other then Boston it would be American Record. So again I'm going to put my faith in the fact that Ryan knows what is best for him as runner.


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Schuey wrote:1) Is the money for running Chicago too much to pass up?

Money isn't a issue with Hall, he actually stated that all the money he wins at Chicago will be going to charity "Hall Steps Foundation."

Well actually, this does kind of make the money an issue for him. I'm sure his charity means quite a bit to him, so when he has a chance to earn money for it, I'm sure he doesn't take that lightly. But I know what you mean...

GregC wrote:

Schuey wrote:1) Is the money for running Chicago too much to pass up?

Money isn't a issue with Hall, he actually stated that all the money he wins at Chicago will be going to charity "Hall Steps Foundation."

Well actually, this does kind of make the money an issue for him. I'm sure his charity means quite a bit to him, so when he has a chance to earn money for it, I'm sure he doesn't take that lightly. But I know what you mean...

I don't want to assume too much, but: Money he "wins" and money he gets to "appear" are two very different things.

jimd wrote:Who's going to beat him in the trials?

If he's at even 90% of his best, no one.

But that's the risk racing Chicago 90 days before the trials. He may think he's recovered from Chicago, then let's say in December he tweaks a hammy. All of the sudden his Olympic dream is in jeopardy.

His competition:

Meb - 2:09
Gotcher - 2:10
Ritz - 2:10
Arciniaga - 2:11
Hartmann - 2:12
Lehmkuhle - 2:12
Torres - 2:13

You also can't write-off Abdi (2:14). And hey, I just noticed Sell can run based on his Boston 09 time!

Dave-O wrote:And hey, I just noticed Sell can run based on his Boston 09 time!

From what I've heard, Sell is just running for fitness, going to school and playing with his kids.

He has joked about showing up at some local 5k's dress all Amish and then kicking their butts.

Dave-O wrote:

GregC wrote:

Schuey wrote:1) Is the money for running Chicago too much to pass up?

Money isn't a issue with Hall, he actually stated that all the money he wins at Chicago will be going to charity "Hall Steps Foundation."

Well actually, this does kind of make the money an issue for him. I'm sure his charity means quite a bit to him, so when he has a chance to earn money for it, I'm sure he doesn't take that lightly. But I know what you mean...

I don't want to assume too much, but: Money he "wins" and money he gets to "appear" are two very different things.

Both Dave and Greg your points are well taken. I didn't think of it from that angle.

Dave-O wrote:

jimd wrote:Who's going to beat him in the trials?

If he's at even 90% of his best, no one.

But that's the risk racing Chicago 90 days before the trials. He may think he's recovered from Chicago, then let's say in December he tweaks a hammy. All of the sudden his Olympic dream is in jeopardy.

His competition:

Meb - 2:09
Gotcher - 2:10
Ritz - 2:10
Arciniaga - 2:11
Hartmann - 2:12
Lehmkuhle - 2:12
Torres - 2:13

You also can't write-off Abdi (2:14). And hey, I just noticed Sell can run based on his Boston 09 time!

I would agree with your line of thinking here. The big key will be is he correct that he can recovery in the 90 days and not only that can he stay healthy and get the start line feeling at least 90%. If he does I would have to believe he is in, but if not then we have a wide open trail that could host a lot of different outcomes and people on the time as you just stated above.

I'd say the difference between Hall and the rest of the field is say the difference between Dave-O and myself at our current fitness levels. Sure Dave should beat me pretty easily if we both have good days, or even if he has an OK day and I have a good day. However, if he has an off day, I'll be right there ready to vulture the win. Running a marathon when you still have that memory of marathon pain in your head is one way to have an off day.

Tim M wrote:

Dave-O wrote:And hey, I just noticed Sell can run based on his Boston 09 time!

From what I've heard, Sell is just running for fitness, going to school and playing with his kids.

He has joked about showing up at some local 5k's dress all Amish and then kicking their butts.

I know, I was just kidding. His OTQ was from his last race at Boston before retiring from competitive racing.

GregC wrote:I'd say the difference between Hall and the rest of the field is say the difference between Dave-O and myself at our current fitness levels. Sure Dave should beat me pretty easily if we both have good days, or even if he has an OK day and I have a good day. However, if he has an off day, I'll be right there ready to vulture the win. Running a marathon when you still have that memory of marathon pain in your head is one way to have an off day.

And if you phrase it that way, I would never ever ever line up assuming I had a victory in the bag. The marathon is just too long to take anything for granted, and I think that's what Hall is doing with the Trials.

Plus, keep in mind, those guys behind him, like Gotcher and Arcianaga, would literally run themselves to the point of collapsing for a chance to make the Olympic team.

Dave-O wrote:

GregC wrote:I'd say the difference between Hall and the rest of the field is say the difference between Dave-O and myself at our current fitness levels. Sure Dave should beat me pretty easily if we both have good days, or even if he has an OK day and I have a good day. However, if he has an off day, I'll be right there ready to vulture the win. Running a marathon when you still have that memory of marathon pain in your head is one way to have an off day.

And if you phrase it that way, I would never ever ever line up assuming I had a victory in the bag. The marathon is just too long to take anything for granted, and I think that's what Hall is doing with the Trials.

Plus, keep in mind, those guys behind him, like Gotcher and Arcianaga, would literally run themselves to the point of collapsing for a chance to make the Olympic team.

Fair enough and good points. Although I will look at this way maybe he is not taken it for granted it. Since Ryan has stated that he normally trains 10 to 12 weeks for a marathon and again he will have 14 weeks after Chicago could he be that he truly believes and knows his body well enough that he will be ready to hit a 12 week program after 2 weeks of rest after Chicago or if he needs it he can 4 weeks to recover and then hit it for a 10 weeks and be ready to give it 100% for the trials.

Again I see what you guys are saying but I don't think Ryan is taken the trials for granted, I truly believe he believes in his plan and he is going with it. Now only time will tell if his plan pays off. The same could be said about the others maybe not running a Spring or Fall marathon could hurt them by not remember what running a marathon is like or by not lining up with World Class runners. I feel that it could go either way for any of them.

I guess only God knows and Ryan.

jimd wrote:Who's going to beat him in the trials?



Knock him if you will, but he is the fastest American born runner. If Chicago weather is decent, he'll have no problems recovering from the marathon. It's really a non issue to me.

Meb?

Michael Mitchell wrote:

jimd wrote:Who's going to beat him in the trials?



Knock him if you will, but he is the fastest American born runner. If Chicago weather is decent, he'll have no problems recovering from the marathon. It's really a non issue to me.

Meb?

I agree with the mental thoughts. Physically, Hall will be ready. Isn't Houston's trial course fairly flat? And didn't Hall run 59 minutes there for the half 5 years or so ago?

Hall is comfortable running in the front by himself and I don't think any of the other runners can catch him unless they go sub 2:08 because that's what a bad day for Hall would be now that God is his coach.



IMHO, Meb's on the downhill side of his career. The NYCM will be his greatest victory. I don't know what he has left in the tank.



I guess it is also worth mentioning that we send 3 to the marathon, don't we?

My guess is that he is confident that he can make the team and will have enough time to recover and peak again. We'll find out in a few months.

I still have to think it is a huge risk to be running 3 marathons in less than 1 calendar year. Didn't Kara Goucher try this a couple of years ago and blew up in her 3rd race? I realize Kara is new to the marathon but 3 "all out" marathons in one calendar year seems to be stretching things a bit too me. I realize Hall is a step above everyone right now in the USA based on current times but who is to say one of those guys in the 2:09-11 crowd couldn't run a 2:06-2:08 by the time the trials roll around? Arciniaga ran his 2:11 in Houston this past year and Houston's weather was 60+ degrees with +90% humidity (I was there I should know)...definitely not ideal conditions to run a fast marathon. I bet if the conditions were more favorable he could have run 2:08-2:09. Who is to say he couldn't go lower with another year under his belt? Hall at 90% may be looking at something in that range as well.



I still think Hall will make the team but it may be a bit more difficult by adding in Chicago as a prep race.

Yeah Joel, I think it will be a really good race this January for all us to see ( live..me..LOL) and on television.

Joel H wrote:I still have to think it is a huge risk to be running 3 marathons in less than 1 calendar year. Didn't Kara Goucher try this a couple of years ago and blew up in her 3rd race? I realize Kara is new to the marathon but 3 "all out" marathons in one calendar year seems to be stretching things a bit too me. I realize Hall is a step above everyone right now in the USA based on current times but who is to say one of those guys in the 2:09-11 crowd couldn't run a 2:06-2:08 by the time the trials roll around? Arciniaga ran his 2:11 in Houston this past year and Houston's weather was 60+ degrees with +90% humidity (I was there I should know)...definitely not ideal conditions to run a fast marathon. I bet if the conditions were more favorable he could have run 2:08-2:09. Who is to say he couldn't go lower with another year under his belt? Hall at 90% may be looking at something in that range as well.



I still think Hall will make the team but it may be a bit more difficult by adding in Chicago as a prep race.

That's all well and good, but are there 3 guys who can do that? We send 3, as Jim mentioned, so it would take some amazing performances from several other guys combined with a bad day from Hall for him to not make the team.