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Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  John Kilpatrick on Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:59 pm

Just catching up with your blog - I had a somewhat bad experience with my first marathon (this spring) as you did - crashed and burned toward the end. I have also learned a ton and am learning all the time - Good advice from Jim - I pretty much ran every run too fast (or at least tried to) and ended with some injury issues. I also agree with Mike to just put that one in the past (good job by the way - who cares what the time was and it really wasn't that slow anyway) - you are coming at this one from a whole different perspective. Look forward to following your progress and good luck! I'm betting this cycle will end much better!

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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:13 pm

Also, my plan for my long run this week is to increase the level of adversity and difficulty. To accomplish this, I plan on introducing alcohol into my system on saturday, and standing out in the sun for a solid 8-10 hours. Depending on the circumstances, I will also alternate between feelings of euphoria and rage. Rage is probably better for the run. Lots of yelling and screaming, and my eyes will probably still be burning from all puke orange I'm sure to see. At least I shelled out for the chairbacks this season.

Could be worse. Could be a 7:30 or 8 PM kickoff. I'm hoping my stepback week coincides with the Bama game.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:13 pm

@John Kilpatrick wrote:Just catching up with your blog - I had a somewhat bad experience with my first marathon (this spring) as you did - crashed and burned toward the end. I have also learned a ton and am learning all the time - Good advice from Jim - I pretty much ran every run too fast (or at least tried to) and ended with some injury issues. I also agree with Mike to just put that one in the past (good job by the way - who cares what the time was and it really wasn't that slow anyway) - you are coming at this one from a whole different perspective. Look forward to following your progress and good luck! I'm betting this cycle will end much better!

Thanks, John. So far, I seem to be even weaker mentally than before. I've really gotten to toughen up.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:07 pm

Round up for last week (Week 1):

T -5 miles, 44 min
W - 5 miles, 39 min
Th - 5 miles, 44 min
Sa - 4.63 miles, 8:35 pace
Su - 8 miles (road), 9:30ish pace

Total - 27.63 miles
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:08 pm

Today:

5 miles, 44:30

Consistent 8:55 pace, treadmill. Felt pretty easy.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  John Kilpatrick on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:15 pm

Good running - you are plenty tough - it will come together for you.

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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  mul21 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:59 pm

Those are really good numbers. Restraint is the key at this point so you get through the cycle in one piece. If you keep running the correct paces and distances now, you'll be amazed at the gains in fitness you start seeing around week 12-15. And I have no doubt of your mental toughness after slogging through that first marathon.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:33 pm

5 miles, treadmill, 44:10
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:40 pm

You've probably already seen this (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm), and I don't know what your goal marathon time is, but if, for example, it was 3:45, McMillan suggests:

workout
pace
recovery run
10:06-10:36
long run
9:06-10:06
easy (GA) run
9:06-9:36
steady-state runs
8:09-8:23
tempo runs
7:49-8:09
tempo intervals
7:42-7:58
You obviously CAN run faster than these paces, but Jim is right (I am still learning all of this myself) - you will probably make your best gains by slowing it down and lessening your chances of getting hurt...

At a goal marathon of 3:45, most runs should probably be (according to McMillan anyway - I'm no expert and don't want to tell anyone how to best train) at 9:06 or slower (your treadmill run comes out to about an 8:50 pace). Again, I don't want to suggest I know what is right for you, but just point out that standard which I guess a lot of people subscribe to. In the meantime, keep up the good work!

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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:50 pm

@John Kilpatrick wrote:You've probably already seen this (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm), and I don't know what your goal marathon time is, but if, for example, it was 3:45, McMillan suggests:

workout
pace
recovery run
10:06-10:36
long run
9:06-10:06
easy (GA) run
9:06-9:36
steady-state runs
8:09-8:23
tempo runs
7:49-8:09
tempo intervals
7:42-7:58
You obviously CAN run faster than these paces, but Jim is right (I am still learning all of this myself) - you will probably make your best gains by slowing it down and lessening your chances of getting hurt...

At a goal marathon of 3:45, most runs should probably be (according to McMillan anyway - I'm no expert and don't want to tell anyone how to best train) at 9:06 or slower (your treadmill run comes out to about an 8:50 pace). Again, I don't want to suggest I know what is right for you, but just point out that standard which I guess a lot of people subscribe to. In the meantime, keep up the good work!

Thanks, John. That info is very helpful. I struggle to know what pace to use for my runs. I'm familiar with McMillan's calculator, but I haven't found it to be accurate for me. Using my half marathon time (1:43:15ish), he projected me for a 3:37:xx marathon last time around. That would have been a reach. I also struggle keeping my pace down on the LSDs. Finally, I find treadmill running much, much easier that roadwork and not just b/c of hills (of which there are not many around). The 8:50 pace I ran today is a breeze compared to 9:00 pace on the road.

That said, I'm going to use those as guidelines b/c I'm otherwise pretty clueless. In the past, I always just ran hard. As I got in better shape, I just ran faster. What are (GA) and steady state runs?
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:05 pm

@healdgator wrote:
Thanks, John. That info is very helpful. I struggle to know what pace to use for my runs. I'm familiar with McMillan's calculator, but I haven't found it to be accurate for me. Using my half marathon time (1:43:15ish), he projected me for a 3:37:xx marathon last time around. That would have been a reach. I also struggle keeping my pace down on the LSDs. Finally, I find treadmill running much, much easier that roadwork and not just b/c of hills (of which there are not many around). The 8:50 pace I ran today is a breeze compared to 9:00 pace on the road.

That said, I'm going to use those as guidelines b/c I'm otherwise pretty clueless. In the past, I always just ran hard. As I got in better shape, I just ran faster. What are (GA) and steady state runs?

I'll beat Jim and Chris to it and just say that the answer lies within - what I mean by that is if you are predicted at a 3:35 or so, you did not lack speed, but just needed more endurance (I'm in the same boat as you by the way - I sort of crashed out of my first marathon this spring). More "easy" miles should be really good for you - I am still working on it for the same reasons as you mentioned - sometimes a slow pace feels too slow, but those with more experience than us swear we'll get there by just putting in more miles albeit at a "slow" pace. I don't mean to pretend like I know it all - I am just regurgitating some valuable info that has been passed along to me...

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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  mul21 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:15 pm

Yep, more easy miles are the order of this cycle for you with the occasional tempo and MP run thrown in along with some strides once a week to maintain turnover. The GA (general aerobic) and steady state runs are kind of McMillan specific, but Dave usually has me do them (GA) as a supplement or introduction to tempo work when building mileage early in a cycle. They get you running a little faster over a sustained distance without completely trashing your legs. For instance, all of mine (8-10 mile GA) were followed by either a mid week long run or the long run of the week so I was running on slightly fatigued legs the next day for my long run.

I'm not sure I've ever really done a steady state run, although the "long tempos" I've done this cycle kind of fall into that pace range. Bottom line is, don't worry too much about either of them until you've got a good solid base under you and can handle 40-50 miles/week without feeling beat to crap.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:02 pm

With all that in mind:

5 miles, 45:15, treadmill, even pace

As should be expected, not as fresh as the last couple of days, but not a difficult run either. Plan for the weekend is 5 miles at about 8:30-8:40 pace with 9 mile LSD on Sunday morning. Not looking forward to sunday's run after the tailgate and game, but I better get used to it. Flipping my pace run to this Saturday instead of next b/c I'm running a 15k next saturday instead of a step back week. I'll adjust the next few weeks from there.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  Dave P on Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:09 pm

Keep up the training. I like your lessons learned list BTW.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:47 am

Sat - 5 miles, treadmill, 42:40, around 8:30 pace
Sun - 9 miles, road, 1:28:00, pace between 9:30-9:50

I was very diligent about staying hydrated on saturday, and it seems to have paid off. I was dragging by saturday night and dreading the morning run, but it went quite well. I also took about 20 oz of G2 which I nursed for the first 6 of the 9 miles, so I'm sure that helped. Pacing wasn't much of an issue for once. After a couple of miles, I was able to stay in the 9:40ish range without much problem, I'm sure that helped as well. For once, I felt like I easily had another 2-3 miles in me.

More importantly, the Gators will qualify for a bowl game and beat up on the Vols for the 7th year in a row. It was hot, but not brutal. We have terrible WRs (I cannot understand how we can ever have bad WRs at Florida) and an average QB. The OL is becoming a strength and the RBs have played well. The front 7 is ferocious and a secondary starting 2 true FR and 2 true Soph isn't as bad as expected. The D figures to be dominant by year's end, and we will return 10 of the 11 starters next year. 7-5 or 8-4 still seems likely, but we could get more than 2 from the group of @ Auburn, vs. UGA, @ S. Carolina, and home vs. FSU. Wins vs. Bama or @ LSU aren't happening.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:26 pm

Round up for last week (Week 2):

T -5 miles, 44:30
W - 5 miles, 44:10
Th - 5 miles, 45:15
Sa - 5 miles, 42:40 (8:32 pace)
Su - 9 miles (road), 1:28:00 9:45ish pace

Total - 29 miles
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:27 pm

Today, another 5 miles on the treadmill. I didn't pay attention to my final time, but I had it set on 9 minute miles. Tired today for some reason.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:49 pm

5 miles, 45:00, treadmill
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:01 pm

Good week last week and good pacing for you. In another week or two it should start getting a little easier!

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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:46 pm

Couldn't run at lunch so I'm either hitting the treadmill on the way home or hitting the road after dinner. It's been raining so it's not too hot. I'm leaning toward the roadwork.

Signed up for the 15k for this saturday and I'm wondering how to run it. I'm leaning towards treating it like a race. Keeps things more interesting (also, seems like a waste to spend $30 for a training run) and it will give me some indication of where I am. This is supposed to be a step back week, but I've pushed that back a week or two. I'm feeling a lot more confident after the last 9 miler than I was previously, so that may be contributing to my desire to race this one. I also feel like I need to get some runs in that are faster than MP just so I know I can do it.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:08 pm

Last night, 5 miles on the road in an easy 46:30.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:23 am

So I decided to run the race hard and while it wasn't a disaster, it certainly wasn't a success.

Splits first:


SplitTimeDistanceAvg Pace

Summary
1:18:01.79.368:20.0
17:59.1 1.00 7:59.1
27:37.3 1.00 7:37.3
38:00.5 1.00 8:00.5
47:55.5 1.00 7:55.5
58:02.8 1.00 8:02.8
68:20.6 1.00 8:20.6
78:45.6 1.00 8:45.6
89:05.4 1.00 9:05.4
98:58.0 1.00 8:58.0
103:15.1 0.36 8:59.6
11:1.3 0.00 30:00.0
That's about 2:30 slower than I ran it two years ago. As you can see, I started out fast. Logically, I knew I was running too fast. I'm not in good enough condition to run 9.3 in under 8 minute miles. I knew this. But I felt really good. I was actually thinking that maybe I am in better shape that I thought. Mile 3 even includes a water break. For the first 5 miles of the race, I was thinking my pace would slow to the 8:15-8:30ish range for the last couple of miles, but I would take that. Instead, I crashed pretty hard (you can see it start there in mile 6) and really struggled just to finish. I also got pretty badly dehydrated again. It didn't seem all that hot before the race started, but most of the race was in the humid high 70s and I did a poor job hydrating the day before. I was really fighting off cramps after the race.

So, normally I would be very dejected and pissed off about this performance, but I'm actually encouraged for a couple of reasons. First, I knew I was running too fast, so it's not like I overestimated by conditioning. It was a silly mistake, but I didn't have a plan for this race b/c it wasn't important to me. I guess I just wanted to see how I would do. Also, it's the 2nd 15k I have run in my life. Even in good shape I would struggle to know how to pace that distance. Second, I did gut it out in the end. I was really, really struggling for a solid third of the race. The powering through that distance will help come marathon time. Finally, it was yet another reminder that I need to be serious about race prep. I wasn't serious about hydration, getting to bed at a decent hour, or even eating wisely the night before (chili - now that was a potential calamity that didn't happen). It's a lesson I should have learned by now, but these recent reminders will only help moving forward.

I get another chance at racing in about 6 weeks at the Baldwin Park Half Marathon. I'm not sure yet how to approach that race in terms of effort, though I'm leaning towards racing it. It shouldn't be as hot, though still warmer than ideal, so it will be another good warmup.

Rounded out the weekend with 5 very easy miles on the treadmill yesterday in about 46:30.

This week was supposed to be a step back week but I wanted to get that race in. I'm pushing the step back week back yet another week b/c it needs to coincide with the wife's birthday weekend. Not the best plan, but I'm early enough in this cycle that the mileage isn't that great. I'll take it even easier than normal on the runs this week and shoot for 11 on Sunday. With an 8PM kick off vs. Bama, I'm not likely to get home before about 2 AM that night. This week's LSD figures to be a real challenge.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  Jim Lentz on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:42 am

Planning a step back week the week of your wife's rithday makes sense. Good job hanging on in that 15K.
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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  healdgator on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:49 am

Thanks, Jim.

I just got this email from the race. 26th out of 50. Horrible:

BRIAN HEALD'S
Personal Race Statistics
powered by:







Personal Race Statistics
for
Miracle Miles 15k
Saturday, September 24, 2011

You placed 235 out of 1703 runners.

Age Group MEN -- 35 THROUGH 39 you placed: 26 out of 50 runners.

Clock Time - 1:18:39 Net Time - 1:17:59
Net time = The exact time it takes to get from the start line to the finish line.
Clock time = The time it takes to get to the finish line from the sound of the air horn.

Your pace was 8:21.9 per mile.

OVERALL MALE WINNER - JAY LUMPKINS - 48:06
OVERALL FEMALE WINNER - SARA PETRICK - 56:04

View Complete Race Results

[size=9][size=9]________________________________________________________________
[/size][/size]




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Re: Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Post  fostever on Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:04 pm

Nice job. Solid finish!
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