Heald vs. the Marathon - The Rematch

Round up for last week (Week 3):

T -5 miles, 45:00 (treadmill)
W - 5 miles, 45:00 (treadmill)
Th - 5 miles, 46:30 (road)
Sa - 15k race, 1:18:00 (8:21 pace - 8:00 pace through 5 miles, collapse after that)
Su - 5 miles, 46:30 (treadmill)

Total - 29.3 miles

4 miles on the road last night, 38:00 Tried out a new lamp I got that fits on the bill of my cap. Narrowly avoided motion sickness, that's going to take some getting used to.

Plan for the rest of the week:

Wed - easy 6
Thur - easy 5
Sat - pace 6; full day of tailgating and hydration
Sun - 11

Sunday is going to very interesting after a long day on Saturday.

Would it be easier for you to run Mon-Wed, Fri and Sat? That way you could avoid the hungover long runs.

mul21 wrote:Would it be easier for you to run Mon-Wed, Fri and Sat? That way you could avoid the hungover long runs.

It's easier for me to work in 3 weekday runs than 4, though your point has merit. In hindsight, it would have been the way to go this week and I may flip my 11 and 6 now that you mention it. That will be 2 weeks in a row I have flipped the long run.

I don't drink much on gamedays (b/c I know I have a run to get in the next morning). It's more a matter of staying hydrated and getting some rest. I probably won't get home until 2 AM this week, that's the biggest issue. I actually felt really good for the 9 miles the day after the Tennessee game, probably b/c I was so focused on staying hydrated.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of 11 on Saturday morning.

6 last night on the treadmill in about 55
5 today in 45 even

I think I have decided to do the 11 miles on Saturday and run 6 on Sunday heading into a step back week. This was supposed to be the step back week, and it feels like it.

I did switch days for my long run from Sunday to Saturday and it was definitely the right call. Put in 11 on Saturday morning in about 1:45:00, I believe. I'll post the garmin splits later, but I think that's about right. It was the first nice morning of they year and it made a big difference. At times, when running by a lake, there was almost a cool breeze. I took water with me and had a little from time to time but I didn't even finish the 20 oz I took. I still struggled a little to keep the pace right, but it is getting to be less of an issue. I average in the 9:30-9:50 range for miles 1-10 before finishing the last mile a little harder. Again, I could have gone a couple more miles fairly easy, so I was pleased. One slightly disheartening moment, but that it's more comical than anything else. When I was about 6 miles in, I saw a younger lady running the other direction. I noticed her b/c she was good looking, in good shape, and running pretty fast, but didn't think much of it. A couple miles later, I hear somebody coming up behind me and its this lady. She basically zips by me and we exchange brief pleasantries about the weather (she slowed down to be friendly, she had to be running at least 2 min/mile faster than me). I'm thinking that it's pretty lame that she is blowing my doors off, but I'm sure she was only running a few miles. Anyway, she stops at the next light to take something (pill, gummies, I don't know) and I pass her turning towards home. Probably half a mile later she catches me again (probably b/c she wants me or something), and I talk to her for about the next 100 yards or so. She asks how far I'm going and I tell her I'm running 11, hoping she will be impressed that I'm running so much farther than she is and set aside the fact that she's Usain Bolt to my :insertoldwhiteguyhere:. I then ask her how far she is running. "Probably about 18, I'm just going by feel today." Hooboy. Now I feel pathetic. At least she's in the final stages of prep for a big marathon or something, so I ask her if she is training for a specific race. "Not really. I may run the space coast, but I don't have anything in mind." I should have made her carry me back home. Wow.

Anyway, the assbeating that was saturday night's fiasco lasted until 11:30 PM, so it was a little before 2 AM before we got back to Orlando. Really glad I didn't have to get up for the 11 on sunday morning. The plan was 6 easy on the treadmill, but I knew going into the Y that I was pretty tired so I was going to settle for 5. I actually felt ok and had no trouble getting in the 6. It was partially driven by the anger I got from watching the replay of the 2nd half of the game. Whatever it takes I guess.

This is a step back week, and the plan is for 5, 6, 5, 5, and 7 all easy. There is an extra mile or two in there I won't feel bad about dropping as well. After this week, I have long runs of 13 and 15 planned for the next two weekends along with an increase to 7 for my Wednesday runs.

Love the story, Brian - I remember those days.

I got up early to run on the road this morning (plan - 5 easy) b/c I couldn't get one in yesterday. Got up, used the bathroom and headed out the door. About a quarter mile in, I feel like I have to take a crap. I just had, so I figured I could manage. I was wrong. I got about .6 from the house and knew I had to turn around. I even had to stop once to make sure I didn't run the shit out of me before I could get back home. I made it though. Then, back out to finish the five miles. Tacos with hot sauce for dinner was not the best plan. I'm such an amateur.

Anyway, 6 at MP tomorrow then 13 on Sunday. If we lose to Auburn, it's gonna be real hard to keep the pace down on the 13 miler. I need to hit the Track Shack today or tomorrow to pick up some GU gels. I hate those things, but I'm going to try to learn to use them this time.

I'm glad you've decided to give the marathon another try. I read earlier about the motion sickness with the headlamp. I had a bit of that last Sat. night in my 50 miler early on. After having it on for several hours, it seemed to fade but it does take a bit to get used to. I'm very sensitive to motion sickness, always have been. Virtual rides at Epcot just about did me in years ago. haha!

jon c wrote:I'm glad you've decided to give the marathon another try. I read earlier about the motion sickness with the headlamp. I had a bit of that last Sat. night in my 50 miler early on. After having it on for several hours, it seemed to fade but it does take a bit to get used to. I'm very sensitive to motion sickness, always have been. Virtual rides at Epcot just about did me in years ago. haha!

I seem to have moved past that, though I think its b/c the light is barely bright enough to illuminate anything.

Pretty solid weekend.

6 on the treadmill saturday morning in 8:20/pace. That's a little faster that I should probably be doing a pace run, but it was on a treadmill so I ran a little faster. Plus, I still feel like I'm getting slower. Anyway, it was pretty easy. I did it while watching gameday. All 3 analysts picked us to lose. They were right. We all knew it was coming.

Sunday morning I ran 13 in 2:06:xx with the last mile in 8:45. I wouldn't say I felt good, b/c I didn't. I was a little heavy legged and I wasn't having to hold myself back to run in the high 9s. I was consistently running in the 9:45-9:50/mile range and I was laboring slightly. However, I wasn't really struggling too much. I guess I would just say I didn't feel strong. Good news is that I had no problem getting in the 13 and finishing with the last mile in the vicinity of MP. I could have gone a couple more miles without any issue. I also ate a GU gel with no stomach problems, so that's encouraging. I am really questioning my anticipated MP though. I feel slower than ever. Only real physical problem came when I treated my water bottle like I was a Gator (any Gator) trying to field a punt. I recovered the water bottle though, so in that way I wasn't like the Gators at all.

I also discovered that one 10 lb bag of ice isn't enough if you use warm water to fill the tub. That doesn't result in an ice bath, just a lukecool bath. Whoops. Our plumbing sucks.

35 for the week (5-6-5-6-13). The plan this week is 5-7-5-6-15. I've also been getting more roadwork in recently, so that's good.

The progress looks good. You're being much smarter about your training this time around.

One suggestion on the feeling slow front. Once or twice a week, on one of your easy runs, throw in 4-8 strides just to get a little of that fast twitch stimulation without doing any real work. I was slacking on those for a while and noticed it when I started back into VO2 max work. They don't seem like much, but they definitely help.

mul21 wrote:The progress looks good. You're being much smarter about your training this time around.

One suggestion on the feeling slow front. Once or twice a week, on one of your easy runs, throw in 4-8 strides just to get a little of that fast twitch stimulation without doing any real work. I was slacking on those for a while and noticed it when I started back into VO2 max work. They don't seem like much, but they definitely help.

I missed this before, but I appreciate the input. I'll admit, I don't know what strides are.

Update from last week before I forget it all.

Tue - 5
Wed - 7
Fri - 5
Sat - 7
Sun - 15

Total - 39 miles

Sat and Sunday were on the road. I felt pretty good on Saturday and wanted to get done quickly (relative), so it turned into an unintended pace run. I say I felt good, but the fact of the matter is that I had to turn around at about the 5 mile mark to hit a port o potty about a half mile back. That changed my course, but not really my pace too much. We hit Del Frisco's the night before, so I was hardly surprised by my bowel issues. Final time was 1:02:00 for an 8:55 average, but that was after starting out in 9:27 and 9:15. The last five miles averaged about 8:45. That wasn't really by design.

Saturday's diet was probably worse, so I knew I wouldn't make it through Sunday's LSD without stopping. Again, I wouldn't say I struggled or that I felt good. I plodded through the first 11 or 12 miles (after stopping at 1.5 to crap) without any real difficulty, but the struggle to keep my pace down wasn't b/c the run was so easy. I settled into 9:50ish pace from miles 5-11 before picking it up slightly for the next couple of miles. By that point, I was feeling pretty strong, so I turned it up again. There is a big hill from 1.6-2.0 miles from the house that slowed the pace some, but I cranked out the last 1.6 pretty hard. Even though I knew I was running hard, I was surprised at my final split. Again, I could have gone a couple more miles without much problem, but I also noticed the difference between 13 and 15. Final splits on a 2:23:27 15 miler (average pace 9:33):

SplitTimeDistanceAvg Pace

Summary	2:23:27.2	15.00	9:33.7
1	10:03.7	1.00	10:03.7
2	9:36.8	1.00	9:36.8
3	9:24.6	1.00	9:24.6
4	9:37.6	1.00	9:37.6
5	9:47.1	1.00	9:47.1
6	9:40.9	1.00	9:40.9
7	9:49.7	1.00	9:49.7
8	9:56.2	1.00	9:56.2
9	9:52.4	1.00	9:52.4
10	9:50.7	1.00	9:50.7
11	9:46.0	1.00	9:46.0
12	9:33.7	1.00	9:33.7
13	9:15.2	1.00	9:15.2
14	9:13.9	1.00	9:13.9
15	7:56.2	1.00	7:56.2
16	:1.9	0.00	10:23.0

Got the ice bath right this time and it helped. Definitely needed the step back week though. Missed tuesday (busy at work again), so it's five easy days in a row. 6 on Wed, 5 on Thursday so far. Plan is 5 tonight, 6 in the morning, and a really easy 11 on Sunday. Heading to Aiken SC (ugh) for work next week, getting the midweek runs in is going to be tough.

http://www.runquick.com/corcorn/strides.html

Check out the link, but here's the important part:

WHAT ARE
STRIDES?
Strides (or striders or strideouts) are short, fast runs of between 50
and 200 metres. They are run at a "comfortable sprint" pace (i.e.
as fast as you can go without tying up and losing good form.) A
typical
Strides Session might be 10 x 100m following a 30 minute easy run.


I usually just go about 100 yards/meters. If you don't have a track, just do a solid 20 seconds at not quite a sprint.

So, 2 weeks ago I didn't get in the Friday run. I ran 6 easy and an 11 mile LSD on Sunday to finish the step back week at:

Wed - 5
Thur - 6
Sat - 6
Sun - 11

for 28 miles.

I knew last week would be an issue b/c I was travelling for work, but I got all 5 runs in. Problem was that it was the last 5 days in a row.

Wed - 5
Thur - 7
Fri - 5

all treadmill.

Saturday I hit the road for 7 miles. I felt too good and wanted to be done so it turned into more of a pace run than I planned. I would pay for that on Sunday. I'll download the splits later (new computer at home I haven't finished setting up), but I was running most of the last 4 or 5 miles in about 8:20 pace. I kept trying to dial it back a little, but not succeeding.

So Sunday was 17 and it was by far the hardest of the LSDs to date. I had little trouble keeping my pace down b/c I was struggling. I think I questioned from the start whether I would finish, but I always start to feel better after 4 or 5 miles so I just assumed that would happen again. It was a little warmer and I probably didn't hydrate enough. I also didn't eat enough breakfast and I forgot to get any GU gels. Pretty much a bad plan from the start. Add to that that I was coming off 4 straight days with a pace run the day before, no surprise this one was much tougher.

All the miles were in 9:35 - 10:00 pace, but they were more difficult than usual. I also screwed up the distance. I went my usual route but I got to the point where I couldn't run out farther to add distance, so I made a turn. I thought I would still need to add a mile or so at the end based on the route I was taking, but I misjudged the distance. It was farther than I thought to the turn to head back home. About mile 12 I started telling myself I had to make it past the last LSD of 15. I wasn't cramping or bonking, I was just running out of energy and my legs were pretty stiff. As I ran past Shaq's house at about mile 13, I imagined him laying around the house eating doughnuts and getting even fatter. Ahhh, that would be the life. Anyhow, I reach a shopping center at the 15.3 mile mark with 2.7 back home. I really didn't want to walk more than a mile home, but I wanted to do better than 15.3. Had it been 16, I would have stopped and called the wife. Instead, I told myself to gut it out to 16, then I could turn around and call her. When I got to 16 about a third of the way up the biggest hill in the area, I decided to walk the rest of the hill (about a 1/3 of a mile) and then run another mile to get in the full 17. That worked and only left me about .7 to walk back to the house. It was a blow to my confidence at the time, but in hindsight I feel good about making it through a roughish day and still getting in 17 full miles. I cramped badly getting into the ice bath, but pain on top of pain just meant I only had to go through it once. I was hobbled for a few hours, but that was it. No real lingering soreness though today's easy 5 was tougher than normal. The time for the 17.3 was, I think, 2:51:xx.

This week, I'm either running the Baldwin Park Half marathon on Sunday or running 18 or 19 on Sunday. If I don't run the half and instead to the 18 or 19, I will be running long 3 weeks in a row. I'd prefer to avoid that if possible.

dupe from the race report thread for the Baldwin Park Half:



The Purpose

I'm about 8 or 9 weeks out from the Disney
Marathon, so this served multiple purposes. The timing was pretty good
to test my conditioning and speed. I ran (and struggled through) 17
last Sunday, I'm going 19 or 20 this Sunday. So this half fell in a
pretty good spot on the calendar. It also helps keep me focused, races
are easier to get excited about than just training. It also lets me
compare to where I was two years ago. In December 2009, I ran the OUC
Half as a sort of a goal race. It was my first half, but shortly before
the race I decided to turn my training into marathon training
culminating in the Flying Pig in 2010 (which went miserably). So, I'm
back at it for the marathon. I struggled to a 1:50:30 in that race - my
first half - with a really bad start and a stronger finish. I had not
run longer than 12 miles at that point, so there are differences that I
have to take into account. Two months later (still 3 months before the
FP), I ran a 1:43:58 half in Gainesville. I knew I would not approach
that time this weekend, but I was aiming for the high 1:40s.

The Course/Support

308
people in the half (200+ in the 5k) so it was a smallish race. I got
there an hour before the start, and its a good thing. Only 7 port o
potties and there were still people in line who were running the half
when it was time to start. I would have liked to have gone again, but
at least I got one in. This is the 3rd year for this race, and they do
an okay job I guess. It's not terribly well organized - no course map,
poor direction about starting line, etc - before the race starts and
they did a miserable job marking the course (mileage wise). It's
through the Baldwin Park area of Orlando in theory, but it's really
about 2 miles around a lake and then and 11 mile out and back on a
bike/exercise trail. That's fine, but it required VERY little support
to put on this race. Certainly not enough to justify the $50 entry fee.
Weather was good. Probably upper 50s at the start into the mid to
upper 60s by the finish. Almost perfectly flat except for 2 uphills
when going over the pedestrian bridge each way out and back on the bike
trail. Alot of mild zig zagging early in the race simply b/c that's the
way the path around the lake is laid out. This would be a fast course
if it wasn't about a tenth long.

The Race

After my
blow up at the Miracle Miles 15k (ran the first 5 miles or so in well
under 8:00 pace when I had no chance of maintaining that), I was
committed to being conservative. My general plan was to run in the
8:15-8:30 range for most of the race and see how I felt after 7 or 8
miles. Unlike the OUC of two years ago when I could barely move my legs
for the first 5 miles, I felt really good from the start. I really had
to try to keep the pace down, and even with that I went out in about 8
min miles for the first 2. However, from there I gradually settled down
into the 8:30 range for a majority of the race. At about the 6 mile
mark, I got passed by probably 6 or 7 runners over a fair short
distance. I let them go a little, but they became my targets later. I
would catch myself picking up the pace too early, so I would dial it
back until I was really confident there would be no collapse. One
problem with the course, and it's a big one, imo. Every mile marker was
off. For the first 5 miles, every mile was off by .01. Every single
one. By the five mile mark, I was at 4.95 on the Garmin. It was to the
point that I figured somebody had measured the course with a garmin.
Miles 6 and 7 seemed right at 1.00, then came "mile" 8. That "mile" was
more than 1.2. That's only relevant b/c the course measured a total of
13.29 according to my watch. Or so I thought. More on that later.
Anyway, a half on this course shouldn't run .2 extra miles. There just
aren't that many places to not follow the tangent.

Back to the
race, once I got back to the bridge and over, I decided I would pick up
the pace at the 9 mile mark (per my watch, not their random placement of
mile markers). I started picking people off at that point and caught
every person that had passed me in that earlier group by the 12 mile
mark. 1 girl/young lady remained to be caught. I ran mile 13 hard and
much faster than any other mile, but I wasn't making up much ground. It
became clear than I would not be able to get her - good for her, she
finished strong as well. But in trying to catch her, I passed probably 4
or 5 more people. When I crossed the line and stopped my watch, the
time was 1:48:52 with an average of 8:11/mile. I was very pleased with
the way the race went and figure that had it been measured right, I was
actually 30 sec to a minute faster than that. When I checked my
official time, I saw that I had finished 6th out of 23 in my age group,
50th out of 308 overall, in a time of . . . 1:48:40. I have no idea how
that is possible. Where in the hell did the race actually start? Just
weird. I definitely believe they measure the course with an accidental
extra .2 - .25 in mile 8 and had the timer some 50 yards out from the
starting line. Anyway, still pleased. Here were the splits:

1 8:04.52 8:05
2 8:04.53 8:05
3 8:14.05 8:14
4 8:21.80 8:22
5 8:26.83 8:27
6 8:31.81 8:32
7 8:31.68 8:32
8 8:28.92 8:29
9 8:25.07 8:25
10 8:06.42 8:06
11 8:01.68 8:02
12 7:57.01 7:57
13 7:37.55 7:38
14 2:00.04 6:53 (.29 miles)

Total 1:48:52 8:11/mile

I
may do the OUC half again in 3 weeks to try to better this time. With 2
long runs (19 and 20) between now and then, plus a better knowledge of
how I can run a half, I figure there are at least 2-4 minutes I can
shave off of that time. I doubt a PR is in the cards, but this is more
about building confidence for the full.

I use my Garmin on the same training route all the time & it reads differently each time. I would trust the race organizers over a Garmin. I love my Garmin & use it extensively, but I have to take the numbers with a grain of salt.

Congrats on a 6th place AG finish - not too shabby.

Dave P wrote:I use my Garmin on the same training route all the time & it reads differently each time. I would trust the race organizers over a Garmin. I love my Garmin & use it extensively, but I have to take the numbers with a grain of salt.

Congrats on a 6th place AG finish - not too shabby.

If it were just the final number, I wouldn't have questioned it. The Garmin could be off that much, especially without running the tangents. It was the other factors that lead me to believe the course was off.

I took the girls to run in a kids' run on Saturday morning and told them I was running a long race on Sunday. Maddie (5) still can't seem to get past the fact that I don't ever win these races. She must have asked me 10 times why I couldnt win the race.

healdgator wrote:in hindsight I feel good about making it through a roughish day and still getting in 17 full miles.

I totally agree with that (as long as they are not all bad runs!). As you had said, you pushed it hard before the 17 and throw in diet, etc in there and it was a good learning experience on what not to do (I seem to have more of them then the what to dos sometimes!)

healdgator wrote:I took the girls to run in a kids' run on Saturday morning and told them I was running a long race on Sunday. Maddie (5) still can't seem to get past the fact that I don't ever win these races. She must have asked me 10 times why I couldnt win the race.

Congrats on the half and great report - it must of been really gratifying to reel back in some people that had passed you. As Jim said, you are training smart and it should pay off for you. That is funny about your daughter. I know my 6-yr old has asked me the same question a bunch of times.

Keep up the good work and don't bother Shaq while he is eating donuts!

[quote="healdgator"]

Dave P wrote:

... Maddie (5) still can't seem to get past the fact that I don't ever win these races. She must have asked me 10 times why I couldnt win the race.

Too funny!

I moved up the first 20 miler up to yesterday, and I probably wasn't quite ready for it. I'll post the splits and whatnot later, but it was brutal. I made it the whole 20 but I did walk up the long hill (.36 miles) at the 18 mile mark. Total time was around 3:18 with a 12:35 mile 19. I was in agony for the last 4 or 5 miles and the next couple of hours after the run. Napping/watching the Packers for a few hours helped. No issues today. No potty breaks, so that was nice. I took 1 S Cap about an hour before I started and another at the 1 hour and 2 hour marks. Also took a Gu gel at the 7 and 14 mile marks. Whatever problems I had with the Gu gels before seem to be gone. It was very, very warm (mid to upper 70s) - that certainly did not help. I started struggling at about the 12 mile mark and that was disheartening. All of the LSDs up to 15 ended with me feeling like I could relatively easily go a couple more miles. The last two (17 and 20), I struggled badly just to finish them. My plan was to run 18-19 this Sunday and the OUC half the next weekend, but I may make this another step back week and then go 18-20 the following Sunday. After yesterday, I don't know that I will be up for 18+, especially with a night game in Gville on Saturday night.


For the week:

Tu - 5 (treadmill)
Wed - 7 (treadmill)
Fri - 5 (road, at night)
Sat - 4 (road, early morning)
Sun - 20 - 3:18:xx

Total = 41 miles

No worries, Brian - getting a bad run out of the way during training is a good confidence booster. If it helps any, I aborted my first 20 of my training cycle for NY and limped in at 16. It was humid by Atlanta standards and I was dehydrated for sure. The following week, I ran a great 20 and it was good after that.

Yeah, I've had those tough training long runs, & then followed it up the next week with a good one too.

If we lose to FSU (I expect to get clobbered), the rage of that loss alone may get me through 18.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:No worries, Brian - getting a bad run out of the way during training is a good confidence booster.

+1 Brian...nothing wrong with a less than perfect long training run, especially early on. We all have them at some point. You still get all the benefits of a long hard run.