Make No Little Plans

Lots of running for me recently. August is going to be a major training miles month for me so every day has been long runs or doubles. I don't plan to take a day off this month. Definitely feeling the grind of the miles but hopefully will come out the other side ready for taking on Philly (half marathon) in September and Chicago in October.



Martin VW and I made a bet regarding the Yanks-Sox series this weekend. If the Yanks won the series, I would have to purchase and wear a Yankees hat for a whole race and make sure the professional photos showed it clearly so he could use it against me for life. If the Sox won, all on Mr. Yankee Fan himself to wear Sox gear. The Sox came back late on Sunday night to win in extra innings and get me the victory. Of course, Martin VW is too worried about the aerodynamic and wicking effects of a Red Sox wool cap to agree to wear a Sox hat like a normal fan! He's talking about wearing some kind of Red Sox shirt. Whatever works and gives me a nice picture of him wearing the Sox 'B' in a race!! I'm so relieved not to have been stuck with wearing a Yankees hat. That would have killed me.



I do plan to do a race this Sunday. Leesburg 20k. What I plan to do is a 20 mile run with the extra mileage sandwiched around the race and I'd like to hit 6:45 pace for the 12.4 miles of the race itself. A tough workout for sure. I've done 20 with 10 at that kind of pace and I did this same 20k last year right at 6:45 or so but it won't be easy to combine it all. First 10k are steady uphill and then the return to Leesburg is mostly downhill so I've got to suck it up and get through that first 10K OK and then I'm home free. But that's Sunday. Lots of dreary miles to run between now and then. And hey, i don't have to wear a Yankees hat in that race on Sunday!

You've got that 20k. I'm guessing you'll fall into a groove about a third of the way through and pick up any time you lost in the first bit on the back half.

I'm starting to feel your pain on the miles. I'm not running nearly as many as you are, but after this week I'll have averaged 65 for the last 4 weeks, which is higher than any single week I'd ever done before this cycle. I think if we can both hang in there for another 6-7 weeks until taper, huge PRs are to be had.

Mike MacLellan wrote:You've got that 20k. I'm guessing you'll fall into a groove about a third of the way through and pick up any time you lost in the first bit on the back half.

I think (hope?) you are right. I went back and found this. I'll wear my HR monitor this weekend so I can get comparsion numbers. It was 70-something degrees last year? SWEET! It won't be like that this time. But here's what happened at the Leesburg 20k in 2010:



Well, it was not a real race for me this morning. I ran the Leesburg 20K as a training run. The plan/goal from Dave was to do 16 miles total with the 20k (12.4 miles) done at 6:45 pace. Mission Accomplished!



It was in the low 70s (nice!) but a bit humid at the start. The temps were rising quickly and by the finish, it was over 80. But not as bad weather as it has been recently.



Course was far hillier than I was expecting. Mostly uphills on the way out and downhills on the way back after the turnaround at 10K. But not much flat ground out there and I quickly realized that my best approach would be to vary my pace according to the terrain and try and keep my effort more steady rather than slavishly stick to the 6:45 pace. I think that worked well and I was never needing to work too hard during this race - forcing myself to do, say, Mile 4 at 6:45 would have spiked me pretty hard and turned this into a different kind of run.



Splits and HR shown below. I'd say this was not as easy as doing a similar pace for 10 Miles was at Cherry Blossom in April but it was a bit longer, I was tapered for that, weather was much better and it was flat. I'm now standing on 86 miles for this week so I was very happy to run the miles below at what I would call a "moderate" level of effort only.



Mile 1 7:05 133 AVG HR/143 MAX HR (nice and easy start)

Mile 2 6:59 142/145 (goal was actually to go into 6:45 here but I was taking a little longer than planned to get into a rhythm - the non-flatness of the course was messing with me here)

Mile 3 6:52 141/146 (here's where I decided that there was so much uphill that I would run it easy and look to make up the time later with some sub 6:45 miles)

Mile 4 7:11 146/148 (biggest hill - I was a tiny bit worried here as 27:00 was my goal for 4 miles and I was like a full minute behind that so early)

Mile 5 6:36 144/146 (now I'm starting to settle in and run)

Mile 6 6:41 142/144 (saw Michael Wardian on his way back from the turnaround and just easing his way to a comfortable win)

Mile 7 6:42 145/146

Mile 8 6:36 146/151 (got to Mile 8 hoping to see 54:00 and I was only a little over now with the big downhills still coming)

Mile 9 6:52 144/146

Mile 10 6:34 146/150 (downhill and I ended the mile knowing I had it right under goal pace now and it was time to manage the time in - tough to let people go who were now kicking into a final push but I was much more focussed on the goal 6:45 pace than anything else)

Mile 11 6:50 149/152

Mile 12 6:45 150/151

(0.4) 6:49 151/152 (ends on an uphill)

Final Chip Time = 1:23:22 (6:43 pace)

AVG HEART RATE = 144

Interesting stuff reading you and Tim's training - I'm definitely on the newbie side of things with one marathon under my belt - from what I'm gathering, it might be best for someone in my shoes to focus on mileage vs. speed. I, like Tim, also have put in a fair bit of time cross training too, so I'm hopeful I've built a decent aerobic base to begin a marathon cycle again - my only concern is that last cycle (granted I was new to running) I started getting hurt when I hit about 50 mpw. I didn't understand anything about recovery or really the purpose of the long slow runs, so I tried to run everything fast - can you remember back to what your mileage jump was from year one to year two for a marathon cycle? I would be ecstatic about being able to hit 70 mpw, but don't know what a reasonable jump might be from a high of 50 mpw last year.

I'll say it again - your experience with running gives me a lot of hope!!!

John Kilpatrick wrote:Interesting stuff reading you and Tim's training - I'm definitely on the newbie side of things with one marathon under my belt - from what I'm gathering, it might be best for someone in my shoes to focus on mileage vs. speed. I, like Tim, also have put in a fair bit of time cross training too, so I'm hopeful I've built a decent aerobic base to begin a marathon cycle again - my only concern is that last cycle (granted I was new to running) I started getting hurt when I hit about 50 mpw. I didn't understand anything about recovery or really the purpose of the long slow runs, so I tried to run everything fast - can you remember back to what your mileage jump was from year one to year two for a marathon cycle? I would be ecstatic about being able to hit 70 mpw, but don't know what a reasonable jump might be from a high of 50 mpw last year.

I'll say it again - your experience with running gives me a lot of hope!!!

The whole distance vs speed thing can usually be answered by something like the McMillan Calculator. For most of us....and I'm a prime example of this....my short distance race times like the 1 mile and 5K point to a much faster marathon than I've ever been able to run. Is that true for you as well? If so, you may be like me and conclude that SPEED is not what's holding me back in the marathon. I can run 6:50s no problem. I just don't have the endurance to run enough of them. So I work on what I'm weak at....mileage. I always do well at 400s and 800s and so while I'd love to run tons of those types of workouts, its really just letting me do what I'm already stronger at.



But as for the mileage progression I've done since I started.....I'm really really guessing here since I don't keep detailed logs....



My first marathon was October 2008 (3:50). I would estimate I averaged 35-40 miles a week. I did the Hal Int plan.



I then kicked it up to Hal's Adv plan for a March 2009 marathon. I ran a 3:20 at that marathon. I think I averaged 45-50 miles per week for that one. At some point along that timeperiod, I went to one day off a week and 6 days a week of running.



I tried to pour it on big time right after that with like 4 straight weeks of 60+ miles. I got hurt and dropped out of a marathon in April 2009. Stupid to try and run another so soon and to pile on that much mileage so fast. That was my only true running injury. I've had a couple of soccer related ones (another stupid something I do) but that big time increase in mileage days after I ran an all out 3:20 was particularly dumb and I was lucky it was only a strained hip abductor and that it healed quickly.



After I recovered, I worked with Dave to do a plan during that Summer of 2009 building up my mileage. I'd say I averaged around 60-70 miles per week and I did have a couple of big weeks right at the peak. I remember being down at the beach for a week and doing over 80. Along in here, I started running 7 days a week many weeks. Maybe every other week, I would take a full rest day. October 2009 was a 3:09.



So that's a pretty big weekly mileage jump between the October 2008 first marathon and the October 2009 3:09 one but as you can see I got hurt when I tried to do much and what worked better (for me) was just tons of 6-8 mile runs done pretty slowly. For that October 2009 marathon, I started doing doubles for the first time. That's a low impact way to add a ton of miles. A 7 & 5 double is sooo much easier than a single 12 mile run.



In the almost 2 years (!!) since then, I've piled on a lot of mileage and tough workouts as I've tried to jump from 3:09 down to sub 3:00. Now the full rest days are more rare - maybe one a month - and I usually do 2-3 doubles a week. No payoff yet at the marathon but all of that mileage certainly has had all of my other race times plummet. Without any focus at all on race distances other than the marathon, those short distance race times keep dropping just as a result of the improved distance mileage.



So, know your strengths and weaknesses. If you bust an all out 5K and McMillian says that lines up with your marathon PR, then you need to work on speed and head to the track. But if the 5K result is saying your potential at the marathon is something far faster than you've gotten to, the answer lies out there on the roads in the form of miles miles miles.

Chris M wrote:

John Kilpatrick wrote:Interesting stuff reading you and Tim's training - I'm definitely on the newbie side of things with one marathon under my belt - from what I'm gathering, it might be best for someone in my shoes to focus on mileage vs. speed. I, like Tim, also have put in a fair bit of time cross training too, so I'm hopeful I've built a decent aerobic base to begin a marathon cycle again - my only concern is that last cycle (granted I was new to running) I started getting hurt when I hit about 50 mpw. I didn't understand anything about recovery or really the purpose of the long slow runs, so I tried to run everything fast - can you remember back to what your mileage jump was from year one to year two for a marathon cycle? I would be ecstatic about being able to hit 70 mpw, but don't know what a reasonable jump might be from a high of 50 mpw last year.

I'll say it again - your experience with running gives me a lot of hope!!!

The whole distance vs speed thing can usually be answered by something like the McMillan Calculator....

So, know your strengths and weaknesses. If you bust an all out 5K and McMillian says that lines up with your marathon PR, then you need to work on speed and head to the track. But if the 5K result is saying your potential at the marathon is something far faster than you've gotten to, the answer lies out there on the roads in the form of miles miles miles.

Chris, you certainly hit the nail on the head with this post.

It used to be that my 5k times did not match up to my marathon times. My marathon would predict a much better 5k than I could actually run. Thus the key for me was to work on speed. I have been able to bring my 5k times in line with my marathon PR and in turn it boosted my marathon PR. Work on your weaknesses and you will reap the benefits across the board.

T Miller wrote:

Chris M wrote:

John Kilpatrick wrote:Interesting stuff reading you and Tim's training - I'm definitely on the newbie side of things with one marathon under my belt - from what I'm gathering, it might be best for someone in my shoes to focus on mileage vs. speed. I, like Tim, also have put in a fair bit of time cross training too, so I'm hopeful I've built a decent aerobic base to begin a marathon cycle again - my only concern is that last cycle (granted I was new to running) I started getting hurt when I hit about 50 mpw. I didn't understand anything about recovery or really the purpose of the long slow runs, so I tried to run everything fast - can you remember back to what your mileage jump was from year one to year two for a marathon cycle? I would be ecstatic about being able to hit 70 mpw, but don't know what a reasonable jump might be from a high of 50 mpw last year.

I'll say it again - your experience with running gives me a lot of hope!!!

The whole distance vs speed thing can usually be answered by something like the McMillan Calculator....

So, know your strengths and weaknesses. If you bust an all out 5K and McMillian says that lines up with your marathon PR, then you need to work on speed and head to the track. But if the 5K result is saying your potential at the marathon is something far faster than you've gotten to, the answer lies out there on the roads in the form of miles miles miles.

Chris, you certainly hit the nail on the head with this post.

It used to be that my 5k times did not match up to my marathon times. My marathon would predict a much better 5k than I could actually run. Thus the key for me was to work on speed. I have been able to bring my 5k times in line with my marathon PR and in turn it boosted my marathon PR. Work on your weaknesses and you will reap the benefits across the board.

Yup! I really wish I was in that boat and had to work on speed. I find speed workouts sooo much more fun than 15 mile medium long runs. But Tim has got it right..."work on your weaknesses and you will reap the benefits across the board"

Ditto on starting with Hal's intermediate plan - I think I did OK with it, but got in trouble when I thought if x is good, then x+10 would be better. As far as speed goes, I'm not really sure how to answer that and I don't have a whole lot of racing experience, but my guess is I am the same as you - short stuff I'm not really fast to begin with, but I peter out at longer miles for sure. I know I bonked my last marathon and if I take my time from it and work backwards, it points to me running a much slower 10K than I am capable of (my PR is 40:26, but it predicts a 44:42). What you pointed out makes a lot of sense - looks like logging a lot of relatively slow miles should be my ticket.

I agree that two shorter runs are easier than one longer run, but do you think they provide the same benefit? If I'm not stuck cross training with cycling and swimming, I actually think I'd enjoy doing more double runs. I handle double workouts just fine now, but obviously cycling and swimming are easier to keep niggles at bay than running. Based on my recent 10K, McMillan predicts a marathon of 3:10 is achievable, but that would represent a 20 minute drop from a year ago ...

My solution may be to not worry about speed work and any specific training program, but just shoot for a mileage marker and just log miles.

Thanks for the teaching!

John Kilpatrick wrote:Ditto on starting with Hal's intermediate plan - I think I did OK with it, but got in trouble when I thought if x is good, then x+10 would be better. As far as speed goes, I'm not really sure how to answer that and I don't have a whole lot of racing experience, but my guess is I am the same as you - short stuff I'm not really fast to begin with, but I peter out at longer miles for sure. I know I bonked my last marathon and if I take my time from it and work backwards, it points to me running a much slower 10K than I am capable of (my PR is 40:26, but it predicts a 44:42). What you pointed out makes a lot of sense - looks like logging a lot of relatively slow miles should be my ticket.

I agree that two shorter runs are easier than one longer run, but do you think they provide the same benefit? If I'm not stuck cross training with cycling and swimming, I actually think I'd enjoy doing more double runs. I handle double workouts just fine now, but obviously cycling and swimming are easier to keep niggles at bay than running. Based on my recent 10K, McMillan predicts a marathon of 3:10 is achievable, but that would represent a 20 minute drop from a year ago ...

My solution may be to not worry about speed work and any specific training program, but just shoot for a mileage marker and just log miles.

Thanks for the teaching!

Believe me, I'm not teaching! I'm getting schooled! But just hoping that my own experience helps others. I'm still trying to figure it all out and failing far more than I'm suceeding. Especially at 26.2 Ugh, marathons. But hey...20 minute drop? I just showed you a 30 minute drop (October 2008 to March 2009) from Marathon #1 to Marathon #2 in five months followed by another 11 minute drop to Marathon #3 (October 2009) for a total of 41 minutes in one year. And I SHOULD have been running 5+ minutes faster than that in that race but crashed. So.....its all doable. Figure out what a BQ is for you and go get that in your NEXT marathon. There's no time for baby steps. Jump in with both feet. Cross training? Tri stuff? I'd put that all on a backburner if you want to go on a mission to BQ. Do that stuff if you like it but the path to the fastest marathon time will be....running. Then when you get super fast and have your BQ in hand and maybe even a sub 3:00 time you can be like Tim and do all that other fun stuff.

It took me 2 years of back to back cycles of 2 marathons per year before I found the perfect marathon cycle. The base work over those 2 years was very important. When I changed my thrice weekly 12 mile runs into 7 GA with 5 more about PMP or a few seconds faster and combined those with a new lunch time 5-6 mile run at GA pace or 5 with 3 @ 5k-10k pace while keeping the miles up near 90mpw, I improved both short distance speed and marathon speed.



Chris most definitely is on the right track. Now it's up to those pesky sodium channels. I'm betting that if Chris runs a final 3x1 mile workout 8 days before Chicago, he blows them out around 5:30-40 with ease. If he accomplishes anything close to that, Chicago will provide a very special memory.



My 2009 PR net was 13 minutes. I expect Chris to match that(from the race earlier this year).

You are teaching me a lot and you do a good job of getting someone fired up (maybe you are a coach in training)! If you did 41 in a year, it is not totally unrealistic to think of me dropping 15-20 (my BQ time is 3:15 this year, but I would love to hit 3:10). I will be jumping in with both feet and (mostly) dropping my tri stuff during the marathon training cycle. My #1 goal is BQ, so
my cross training for this cycle will probably consist of cycling one
day a week, hopefully additive to and not in place of running.

jimd wrote:It took me 2 years of back to back cycles of 2 marathons per year before I found the perfect marathon cycle. The base work over those 2 years was very important. When I changed my thrice weekly 12 mile runs into 7 GA with 5 more about PMP or a few seconds faster and combined those with a new lunch time 5-6 mile run at GA pace or 5 with 3 @ 5k-10k pace while keeping the miles up near 90mpw, I improved both short distance speed and marathon speed.

Two years base work - got it. I love the tri stuff too, but almost can't wait to get through the September half ironman so I begin focusing on just running again. Chris says I can do it and who am I to argue?

Chris there is no doubt you have come a long way since the first time I meet you at MCM! Your approach and knowledge about running has come a long way. I think the one thing you hit on in a post is that once you "get down the pacing thing during a race" you will do just fine. That and hopefully you have found a cure for the really bad cramps, there is no doubt in my mind that you will reach your goal and some at the marathon distance.

Good luck this weekend with you 20 miler plus 20k race! I'm sure you will do just fine.

Oh still laughing at the your comments on the 2010 National Half. Running 6:08 pace for the first 5k when the plan was 6:30, just a little fast.

Hey Chris, just stopped by to see if you're on track for a great fall marathon. Looks like we're both doing well as we approach the peak of this training cycle.

Is it going to be too hot for you today...at 86 degrees (30% humidity and 51 dewpoint)? We don't want you to overheat or anything. I would absolutely kill for that kind of weather. It was 80 degrees (88% humidity, 76 dewpoint) this morning for me! High of 102 (46% humidity and 76 dewpoint)...see it doesn't matter when I run...the dewpoint is EXACTLY the same. The only benefit I get for running in the morning is I don't get sunburned.

Joel H wrote:Is it going to be too hot for you today...at 86 degrees (30% humidity and 51 dewpoint)? We don't want you to overheat or anything. I would absolutely kill for that kind of weather. It was 80 degrees (88% humidity, 76 dewpoint) this morning for me! High of 102 (46% humidity and 76 dewpoint)...I am pretty sure you couldn't run in that kind of weather day after day.

You would kill for that weather? Do you already get that at the gym on the treadmill? Haha just joking Joel, I'm so glad we don't have that 100F heat right now.

And to rub it in, man it sure does feel good to go outside and run this past week. I will make sure to enjoy it for you!

Schuey wrote:

Joel H wrote:Is it going to be too hot for you today...at 86 degrees (30% humidity and 51 dewpoint)? We don't want you to overheat or anything. I would absolutely kill for that kind of weather. It was 80 degrees (88% humidity, 76 dewpoint) this morning for me! High of 102 (46% humidity and 76 dewpoint)...I am pretty sure you couldn't run in that kind of weather day after day.

You would kill for that weather? Do you already get that at the gym on the treadmill? Haha just joking Joel, I'm so glad we don't have that 100F heat right now.

And to rub it in, man it sure does feel good to go outside and run this past week. I will make sure to enjoy it for you!

Yes, I would kill for that weather. Since May 19th, we have been below 70 degrees for the LOW ONLY 10 times with most days above 75. I just joined the YMCA about a month ago and I have been using it a lot but a couple of days ago my knee started acting up so I wanted to take it outside today to make sure everything was ok. As for the gym, it is cooler but it is probably similar to what Chris' weather is like but without much airflow I still sweat a bunch (as you know), but I just can't do it mentally everyday yet. I am already doing it 1-3 times a week now and that is after not doing it for 3 years prior.



I will remember your last statement and remind you in December/January when I am enjoying being outside and you are stuck inside on your treadmill!

Nice "race", Chris! You are runnign quite well - keep up the great work. (And it would have killed me too to see you wearing an Evil empire hat).

I'm content if not thrilled with today's 20 miler with 20K at MP. The 20K portion was the Leesburg 20K, a race out West from where I live. This is the 3rd time I've done it. Hilly. Mostly a series of ups on the way out and then you get some nice downhills in the final 10K on the way back in. Goal going in was 6:45 pace but I had a hard time getting mentally and physically going this morning. Simply put, I was just too conservative and laid back in the first 4 miles. That dug me into a time hole and even though I ran much more strongly from that point on, I couldn't get the overall pace down to 6:45. Now, lots of plus sides in there too. My HR was 141 for this race. That's mid 70s percentage of max for me and quite low and sustainable. In fact, as you can see below, my HR dropped during the course of the race which sure is odd on a negative split 12.4 mile MP run. I just wasn't working that hard. Interesting to contrast today with last year when I ran faster but at a higher HR. I was more "on" that day in terms of bringing it right from early on. Today I was feeling the effects of the mileage I've been doing and kind of woke up at Mile 5. Also with the w/u right before and then doing 6 right after the race with KB Fitz and my buddy Jason, I got in 20 miles on the day and it was very low impact on me so that's a plus and something different from last year when it was the race and done. Today, I knew I had more miles to run to make 20 miles on the day so maybe that lurked in the back of my mind during the too conservative start. Another plus is that I got 3rd in my AG! How did that happen at a big race like this? Darn, wish I had known as I would have gone and picked up the award. I just went off running with Kevin and Jason and it didn't occur to me that my time would be in the ballpark for AG stuff since it was just a training run. It wasn't too hot today. Kind of humid and I sure was happy to change shirts before finishing out the 20 miler.



Here are my 2011 (today) splits alongside of my 2010 (same race last year) ones.



Mile 1 2011 7:03/134 HR AVG; 2010 7:05/133 (eh. I was planning on 6:55 to open today but wasn't worried...yet)
Mile 2 2011 7:22/141; 2010 6:59/142 (oops - too sleepy? Yikes, I just gave away a ton of time versus 6:45)

Mile 3 2011 7:21/141; 2010 6:52/141 (I am now mildly alarmed this morning - I am melting seconds away fast)

Mile 4 2011 7:26/143; 2010 7:11/146 (WTF? Am I going to run any 6:XX miles today? But I don't feel BAD. Just not "engaged")

Mile 5 2011 6:38/142; 2010 6:36/144 (Finally. Ok, warm-up over. Now I feel good. That sure took awhile)

Mile 6 2011 6:38/140; 2010 6:41/142 (HR drops here both years. Odd. Must be some downhill before the turnaround )
Mile 7 2011 6:51/141; 2010 6:42 145 (I'm rolling so easy here but with no sense of urgengy about getting back any of the seconds lost early - "whatever" seems to be my mindset today)

Mile 8 2011 6:44/142; 2010 6:36/146 (ditto - I could have kept going like this for a very long time today)
Mile 9 2011 6:45/140; 2010 6:52/144 (see that HR drop again? I've hit a groove and just gliding through this now)
Mile 10 2011 6:36/142; 2010 6:34/146 (downhill mile and its Summetime and the Living Is Easy - I wish running was like this more)
Mile 11 2011 6:42/141; 2010 6:50/149 (When I hit that Mile 10 marker, I knew I wasn't going to hit 6:45 overall pace but my math was fuzzy on whether I could do under 6:52 and keep today as a Sub 3:00 MP run. I was pretty sure but doing it only in my head so not 100%)

Mile 12 2011 6:33/142; 2010 6:45/150 (last year 6:45 pace was pushing me up into the 150s. Today I never hit 150 all day - my max all day was 145)

(Last 0.4) 2011 6:20 pace/145; 2010 6:49 pace/151 (the course ends on an uphill but I had so much left that it wasn't a problem. I was bummed to see the race clock go over 1:25 but my chip time was under)



Final Chip Time = 2011 1:24:58 (6:50 pace); 2010 1:23:22 (6:43 pace)

AVG HEART RATE = 2011 141; 2010 144



So what does all of it mean? I don't know. I was way too conservative at the start today. With HRs that low, there's no excuse for miles that much over 7:00. Those 3 miles today over 7:20 right at the beginning were...weird. I was running GA style rather than MP pace run style. Once I snapped out of it, I ran so smoothly that I'm going to give myself a pass on the way too slow start and grade today's 20 miler as a A- or B+ since I still did make it in there as a 20K MP run for sub 3:00 pace.

Eh, no big deal with the miles you're logging. Some days you're all there and some days not. You did a nice job rallying and finishing at a decent clip and getting the full 20 in.

That was a great run! Hard to believe your HR stayed so low and actually dropped a little at one point. Even on the last hill it didn't climb but a tiny bit. Since it was sort of a training run for you anyway, I would give it an A effort. I'd much rather finish strong than start strong and fade at the end. You won't have that problem come marathon day. I'm really blown away at the fitness you show with your HR. Really strong. Bummer about the AG award - maybe they can mail it to you? I bet it would kill a lot of people who killed themselves in this race to know that you were off running additional miles after this race after putting a beating on them!!!

Great job!

Nice job on the AG "show" even with the easy miles at the start - sounds like you are in great shape given how the whole package went.

Damn, man, you're sort of making me wish I'd signed up for a fall marathon so I'd be trying to get in runs like this. Your training has been ridiculously strong lately. My 2 cents: you're going sub-3.

Nice 20k Chris and AG placement. Hey maybe you found the secret to pacing? Go into the race relaxed and tired which in returns equals slow early miles. Again congrats on a successful weekend of running.

Must be fun getting together and doing so many runs with crazy man Kevin. Looking for to seeing you in Sep and Oct. And hopefully you being a part of my crew with Kevin in Nov.

Wow no matter what I will be seeing the Mckee's 3 times in 3 months. Now that is just crazy!

Mike MacLellan wrote:My 2 cents: you're going sub-3.

+1 Good stuff